Perhaps someone can explain to me how you get successfully promoted without your boss's support. Here's how to find it. Senior-level employees have the most decision-making power at a company and are meant to provide leadership and guidance to employees with less seniority. You know you want to get to that other bar, but that chasm in between is fraught with risk. Benefits can add thousands of dollars to your offer. The important thing though is, can you hold things in a room full of other Senior team members. Get FREE domain for 1st year and build your brand new site. However good your manager is, she or he is still a human with insecurities and ego. I came from .NET (no longer there), and there were plenty of Senior IC PMs and Devs.Are you in Test, Marketing or Documentation? I have actively helped people leave MS who were topped out at level at MS but who wanted to do something else. I think folks like that are the one-offs who slipped by and most likely (given the scrutiny I see more and more) certainly wouldn't slip by today. It makes a difference in your relationship. And how do you represent yourself as a leader and influencer when you are in a room with 6 other people vying for the exact same thing? Seems like "director" in Microsoft is not really a level like it is in google or fb (not sure what it means). So all you're telling me is I can't count on you so why should I? Joined MCS at level 60 and was immediately told that L61 would be years away. Be the Rosh Gadol Microsoftie. So if you want a promotion and don't get it: drop everything you are doing now and start working on your promotion, i.e. It's what you can offer, not what you want out of it that most teams are looking for. If you're a manager, what's your L63 promotion philosophy? But if your manager is undervaluing your work, and *that* is the factor that is making you unhappy, you can fix that. When does that year start? See next bullet. But if you start when you think you are ready and work with your manager toward the goal, you'll get there. But, if you have the possibility of finding a position that you will really enjoy, where your goals and those of Microsoft are fairly close, then your long-term potential will be higher. Folks, Im really encouraged by this post and the focus on trying to help make others great. You havent [sic] seen nothing [sic] yet. For technical and management track, the job level start from 57 and continues till 80. You want to be more efficient, smarter than him. Don't do this point blank and for no apparent reason, but your manager has to be aware that at all times you're working towards your next promo, be aware of your results, be aware of the things you need to do to get there, and make YOU and HIS MANAGER aware of those things. Thanks.Sorry mini -- I meant the content of the comment I referenced, not the content of your original post (which I'm in violent agreement with). Shock and awe awaits [sic].Four errors in grammar and punctuation in a post of just 14 words? How do you get the right job/work that will make the impact. Your boss is the way to your promotion no matter where, what and when. @No! 3. So, focusing on the customer instead of the competition is "incoherent blithering?" . Say that you will understand if your manager thinks you aren't ready. . Your boss should already have about a year-long plan about who on the team is getting promoted when - it's essential for team promotion budget planning. But anyway, EOF for that angle. For example, in order to be promoted to level 62, you, as a level 61, must already perform at a level 62 level for a long time. Remember the "how".All the things Mini mentions do translate further up in levels. If you have your mnanager in your pocket, you cna achieve greate heights in life. If you don't have a manager like that or the manager cannot/will not set clear commits/accountabilities - when the freeze lifts, time for you to look at new areas where you can bring something to the table. Just pick one Job id, prepare for it and then go for internal. Mini -- you left out the most important option, which I took. ALWAYS ask for a promotion. Seek out local critique before you approach people above you. If you are within striking distance of level 63 in the next few years, then consider yourself VERY fortunate. I think that everyone has a bad year or 2 and you should not get worried about spending a lot of years in one level unless you have been on the same team for a long time.So my advice is1. Things get thrown your way and you knock each and everyone of the challenges out of the park. And to your boss. But more likely youre displaying the hallmark of a weak performer described in the article of the same name (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/18/MN73840.DTL). A great internal tool to help you sync your self perception with those around you is available internally at http://hrweb/US/CareerDev/folder/ms360process.htm. Mini, as good as your writeup is, there is too much emphasis on this level promo business in MS, and I have seen my fair share of people that have been burnt by it. Let's Hear it for the Boy! I am happy to be an L63, trying to get to L64 so I can relate.How I got here (I started as an industry hire 61 about 5 years ago):1. Somebody help me out here. I have also always looked for those problems (opportunities). Help make it more accurate by adding yours. Ultimately, I decided to leave the company. Lots of very true points. I joined Microsoft at L63 in Office and found it to be a freakshow of people NOT working together but understanding that no team work was better for getting a promotion FAR better than I did having come from the Valley. Thank goodness for this blog, where MS employees are free to talk about their personal struggles, unlike "other" blogs that censor/prohibit such discussions, so that they can live in some fantasy land and avoid dealing with the real issues. Who da'Punk They took credit for work done by others (#2 helps).Seriously, they only way to separate the wheat from the chaff in this company is to allow to interview without notifying the manager. Unless you know for sure that your boss's answer is an immediate "Absolutely!" What is up with the gold star awards? I'm not talking about "managing up" (though that helps a little if done properly) but it's all about understanding your manager and skip manager's priorities and proactively succeeding in those areas. This topic didn't elicit nearly as many comments as I would have expected. Promotion budgets of 65 and above has been kept intact.Promotion and raise budgets are going to be quite tight everywhere, not just at MS. Sign up on LinkedIn and join the Microsoft Employees or ex-MSFT employees groups and then you'll see them posted. I've achieved level 65 in a field technical role and it wasn't that hard. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. Despite the fact you may be totally right, you can inadvertently be viewed as a negative person.Although your bosses are probably aware of the problems, they might be overwhelmed by the scope of the situation, and start getting annoyed at you for being the person always reminding them about the flaws. Think of the guy in the other company, the guy who is building something that competes with you, with your team. It's hard for L63. At this point many people will ask how can I influence others if Im not their manager? They make decisions that affect both their department and the company, making their role crucial in the pursuit of the company's goals. I am a troll. I used to work in the OneCare team. Any idea on when is this going to change? Wouldnt my manager get annoyed if I try to go over him to get myself know to VP? Is this a normal situation and should I not be worried?MCS has different pressures regarding levels. Many senior people, even VPs read this blog. Join the Levels.fyi community to chat with employees at Microsoft and other tech companies. It sounds fishyMy manager was also saying me something along the same lines. How do you get the right job/work that will make the impact. So far, we all appear to have jobs, but man, what a shocker, I thought ours was one of the more stable teams.Not sure what happens to our Director, he seemed a bit shocked himself when he delivered the news today. And a knife-fight for L65 (some other day). I think talking about level just confuses people as beyond US there is a different level system!L63 in the US is Senior (Level 60 in most of the other countries), well, moving to Senior is not such a big thing if you have experience, with more than 10 years in the industry I was hired at this level, now Senior II is just a matter of continuing contributing but the different comes to Principal (or lead), here is where you need to shine in order to succeed.Recommendation: Work not only towards your commitments but your managers as well As a former L65 (left MSFT about two months ago) I can say you are right on when it comes to understanding where your boss stands. My rent contract was renewed in September and I have to find another person or risk loosing a 1000 bucks, Mini,Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple, but when they appear, it doesn't take long before the rest of the organization figures them out and isolates them. Ultimately humans make decisions either by heart or brain. Jobs are leveled, not people - make sure the job you have includes the scope needed for the level you want. Avoid long-winded multi-point e-mails, boil down your points as succinctly and efficiently as possible. For some teams - especially those like Office with few departures release-to-release resulting in level compression - that's a rough bunch. Popping out of the pack in peer reviews may take some time so you have to be diligent, consistent and never give up. I work in MSN and we still have no way to know the levels of our peers. I'm just going to try and emphasize a few points here:* As mentioned by many folks, it is important to own your career and hence plan you promotion, discuss it with your manager, and most importantly follow up on it. I've been told HR looks for employees that have been at their level too long. Maybe Steve Jobs' psychotic approach to managing by terror is not properly described in English as "junk yard dog mode" (standing up for what needs to be done vs. mind-numbing consensus wallowing). Steven A. Ballmer Chief Executive Officer, Microsoft Corporation. The problem is you can't tell if you've done something to piss him off or if he's doing it because he has to. senior director can be L66 or L67. Its a natural consequence of the learning curve. It's usually too late at that point. Incompetent People Really Have No Clue: If youre one of the people complaing about how youre not getting promoted because your mgr is incompetent and youre just as good as all those others who got promoted you could be right. Microsoft Salary. And to your skip level. In general, people are not leveled, jobs are. Why? I've been 3.5 years at 62 and re-orged every year in mobile.Any ideas on how to carry greats results of one role into another through a re-org. You have to strive to get the KEY to the boss's heart and brain. We in general hire very smart people who can figure it out. One, we bill customers higher for higher levels and we call everyone 'highly experienced' or even an 'architect'. Now a VP at a small cap (and growing, yes in this economy) company. Give the employee directives and start documenting when they fail so a case can be brought to get rid of them if it comes to that. Microsoft, Go to company page * Sell yourself: I know it sounds odd and contradictory. Woow. I think there's only one thing I would add, from the perspective of having been promoted from L59 to L64 in a 6-year period in one org (I left MS in 2006).Sometimes things within an org will turn to complete crap, and either there's not an option to leave or you may not want to. Leadership, for instance. great post. Their self criticism spurs them to improve. I think you should play some games while searching for you L63 promotions. I hope Mini returns from his vacation soon :(The Windows division has a large number of people that were promoted to "Senior" PM/Test/Dev in the past year. Understand that promos aren't an exact formula. Also, the way you achieve your commitments does affect the perception and recognition of your efforts. Yes, we have tons of info on the HR websites and yes, there are steps you should take. Some related job titles areMarketing Director salaries with median pay of $163,348,Senior Consultant salaries with median pay of $123,519,Senior Product Manager salaries with median pay of $193,845,Managing Director salaries with median pay of $333,006. Here is my question, I don't trust that my manager will fight for me to get me to 63 for the following reasons:- The area I own is not big enough for a 63 but at the same time there is not other areas he can give to me given where we are as a team without taking away from my peers, something he would not want to do unless there is a big problem with a peer not delivering which is not the case.- Innovation - this leaves me with trying to come up with other areas that the team can focus on in addition to current goals to leap frog us and which I can own; so far even though some of my ideas are really good (according to the mgr) the timing is off (ie the team has not reached that level yet where my ideas would be practical to implement given the big ROI)In short I can't trust that this mgr will get me to 63 in a time frame that I would like to see it happen (provided that I nail the qualities you highlight for a 63) which leaves me with the following choices:-Sticking around and continue working on displaying 63 qualities until the above points change, and who knows how long that will take- leave for another team internally (which means a bit of time to establish myself again etc) but at the same it would give me more clear timeline of when I can say I am 100% delivering as a 63.-get external offers (eg from Google), bring it up with the mgr and thereby force a change (more responsibility) since leaving would hurt the team in at least the short term. Oh, please. This can play a bigger role even than how many times you broke the build, caused a bug, etc. There certainly doesn't seem to be any shortage of people wanting in. Here's some advice from a recent L64'er (L63 last year). I'm a level 64 lead in Windows and this post is spot on. The average entry-level engineer or program manager will have a total compensation of $125,665. They just plain resonate. When you see a bozo who is L65 it is highly likely that he had joined MS recently at L64-L65 directly.Here's biggest difference in expectations between levels: The L62 guys are supposed to be able to lead their feature and perhaps influence couple of related features by spreading their best practices. I think it's important to be very up-front andto use a clichetransparents with your manager regarding your next steps and prospects for promotion. Mini himself is quite high level and knowledgable. "Now that the Annual review is approaching"You're probably too late already. You don't deliver products on your own -- you're usually building one system, one set of components that together make one successful (or unsuccessful) product.You can always, always find ways that make yourself, your manager, and your immediate team much more successful. During that time I had two good to great managers. Aspects of an L63 Contributor: some random aspects that come to my mind beyond our CSPs: When I write all of this, I think back to an older piece by Joel Spolsky talking about Rosh Gadol contributors. Hi,Now that the Annual review is approaching, I wanted to seek tips on justification putforth to the manager to move from L60-L61.
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